The Feinics Gate Podcast - Issue 172 - Press X To Panic

Ladies, now it's Showtime. Let's show them we can rise from Ash, Jane, Lavender and Scarlet Phoenix power. So can go where we rise. They tried to bind us with one like a flower. They didn't know we had a Phoenix's power. Phoenix Power. What's up everybody? It's your girl, Jade Phoenix. We're here, we're back, and I'm actually not alone. As usual, I am with the Crimson, and of course I'm with the Lavenders. It all started when I was born.

What's going on, everybody? You're doing great. You know a lot, but that's OK. Sometimes we have some battles. I love that meme. I feel like I've become that meme where it's like I don't need to be God stronger soldier anymore. Hire someone else if that's it. Like that's how I feel like currently. So like that's why I'm very excited. I always have the gate to come back to.

I mean, yeah, the gate is home. Very, very true and it helps season that all out, you know. I'm actually in a different nest to do guys. I know, it's so exciting. I am actually coming to you live from Mid Island Collectibles, which we talk about every single week about where we have the shop and a bunch of our other friends are here and I'm actually physically in the store right now doing this podcast.

But I think that's so awesome and even better to be like, you guys should come and check us out. I mean, yeah, hello. I don't.

Understand there's always tons of exciting things happening. There's so many exciting things. I mean, honestly, when this episode comes out, it will be the end of May. We are. We've had yo. Can you believe it's almost June? Crazy wild fucking work, man. Like seriously, seriously. We're in Gemini season, we're heading into the middle of the year. I can't believe that half of 2025 is already gone #1 #2 we have two. We have two events this weekend. Me and Lavender will be heading out to the Cryptid Zoology.

We're having a safari in Prospect Park. And then on Sunday, the Phoenix Gate will be at the Long Island Horror Market. It's the Route 110. I believe it's the Route 110 bingo hall out in Sayreville. Unfortunately, I actually won't be at the Cryptid walk just because of all the crazy things happening, but I will be there in spirit.

That's news to me. OK, I stand corrected. You're. Dying. I lied. Lavender won't be there, no. Sorry all. I need to get some things organized. So unfortunately I have to make some concessions and focus on unfortunately real life things for for that weekend. But either way, we'll still be at the Long Long Island horror. I'll still be at the crypto the Cryptid meet up next week. We have Moonlight Market, so the Phoenix Gate will be in attendance to one of our favorite markets of all time, Moonlight Market.

And as always, you can come in seven days a week from 11:00 AM to 8:00 PM here at the Broadway Mall to Mid Island Collectibles.

So I think that's a very, very exciting send off. And don't forget, folks, I know that Jade is always doing our Magic the Gathering nights, which I've heard have been very, very successful. Thursday there, so you won't want to miss out. Thursday nights starting at 6:00 until whenever because we do not. Even though the mall closes at 8, we don't so. Nice. We'll continue to welcome your weird and wild. That's all that matters. No matter what, time is night to see. Yeah, So what about you, Crimson?

Any things to tell the masses? Tell the Phoenix Nation.

I guess besides all those other things, I mean, we are over at QX TS, we're actually going to be having the Iron Garden this month over on Friday. So this when? Well, wait, aren't I doing something in a? Reminder because I'm yes you are, but I'm trying to remember because I'm debating I'm I don't know if by the time this comes out if it will be comes. Out the. Day after or or or the day of, Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So for those who don't know, QXT is usually has an event that the last Friday of every month over at QXTS, we have the iron Garden.

They're going to be, we're going to be essentially having our lovely Jade doing a presentation on one of our courts there. So trying to remember, my goodness, today's been busy day. So I'm like running a blank on the topic name. Do you remember what it is? Fairies. Well, fairies, but there was a specific name to the topic. I don't remember what it was, but yeah, so fairy stuff. Fairies, hedge, witchery, green witch stuff. Yeah, pretty much around that ballpark range for the topic that she will be discussing.

And yeah, and I think the which I always, I always find it weird when we have like almost like a full instead of like 5 weeks almost in a month. I know we're doing that again in July. Next month? Really. Yeah, July has five Fridays. Yeah. So, yeah, excuse me. So yeah, next month we're going to be having it same thing as every month, last Friday of the month in June it will be. I believe that would be the 29th. Maybe. I believe it's the 29th. No, actually it's the 26th. Oh well, I was. Actually, no, I'm getting, I'm getting confused actually, not, not, not 5 weeks, the week after which is July.

That is the near 5 weeks, yeah. Or five Fridays I should say. I know. The the June June doesn't. June has June only has four, but regardless, so we'll be having it at the end of the month last Friday, which like Jade said it would be on the 26th. So yeah, if you guys are not able to come here this Friday for May, we always have next month also as well. Yeah, and it's a good time. It's honestly, it's in one of the it's one of the best goth clubs in the tri-state area and and on even when the court itself is done, we can still all hang out and dance and and just enjoy ourselves immensely as we always do at QX TS.

Yeah, and there's also feel free to also check out any other events that QS has as well. Exactly, QS has a lot of good events. Yeah. QS has a lot of good events, like we went to emo night. It was a great fucking night. Yes, that was amazing. The music fucking flapped. The drinks were great. It was a great escapism vibe. I think we all kind of need that these days. I would have that I need. To hear this. Yes, I agree. I agree. And you want to know what the great thing about QX TS is? You can be as spooky scary as you want to be, and that's great considering what it is that we are talking about tonight.

Yes. We are building on what we talked about last week. If you haven't checked out our last our episode from last week, we were talking about the Renaissance that has become the horror genre in movies. And in that episode we discussed that video games needs an entire episode to itself because they are such a powerhouse. And honestly, my personal opinion, it was the video games that we got that were able to give us the Renaissance of horror that we have. Now, Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I mean there we there's even like some very big key points or key games.

I would say probably better term to use that we can even say it is, you know, plays a huge role or big part within the the history of that too. Yeah, horror games hit different than horror movies because you're not just watching the bad decisions, you are the bad decision. A movie will literally or making them. A movie literally says don't open the basement door. A horror game goes press X to descend into the meat tunnel. It's like. And then you can't really do it without pressing that. Button you know, it's funny too.

I've actually been I've finally gotten my hands on and and this is also going to be one of our big key franchises and we're going to see franchises. It's not just one game, it's multiple games. The Resident Evil game Requiem finally got my hands on it after being I'm just going to put I'm going to throw Amazon under the bus for a quick second. Please do Fuck Jeff Bezos. Fuck Jeff Bezos. For fucking me over on my deluxe edition copy and now had to go ahead and get a regular one. But I love that field book.

But you know, it is what it is. The harder.

I managed to get my hands on the more recent Resident Evil game. I know there's some people that had their opinions and the valid ones too on kind of like the split experience on the game.

Some people are kind of sick of the first person perspective. But you can always change that if you wanted to, which I did. And it just because of I, I like to keep it to the original. Yeah. But I guess just speaking on the Resident Evil franchise itself. I mean, heck, we we've, I think Resident Evil is one of those games that kind of, I don't know if revolutionized would be the right word use like the zombie genre. Well, you need to understand Resident Evil. Is it it? It literally came out in 1996.

It was published by Capcom for the original PlayStation. And we have talked ad nauseam on this show about how the video game systems have evolved, you know, throughout the the years like this literally established that whole survival horror series. Because I mean, like you have to mention if you are going to go in classic and we are talking about this, obviously you have to mention Fatal Frame, you have to mention Silent Hill. You know, this is literally this, this game has been around for 30 years like Resident Evil franchise is not going away anytime soon.

And there are so many things that have spawned from this game. This literally introduced survival horror into the mainstream video games. And you will I won't hear no evil about and no, no, no bad talks about Resident Evil. It's not No, I'll I'll fight you. I love Resident Evil. Like, granted, like, as much as I love video games, I don't play a lot of video game franchises. I. Do love Resident Evil, Like for me it's one of those things that like, I also love how it's changed because to your point, Crimson, I do feel it's always been survival horror, but it didn't necessarily start as like zombie survival horror.

It kind of took on that power as the zombie kind of themes were becoming very popular in horror, kind of like what we're talking about with horror cinema and how it continues to evolve for like what's happening now. So for me, and this might be an unpopular opinion, I was so happy when they finally shifted away from zombies with my personal favorite, which is, which is Resident Evil Village. I love that they kind of went back to their very, like, broad horror roots and with more complex creatures.

And it's not saying that the zombie era of Resident Evil isn't fucking awesome, but I love that, like horror movies, it evolves with what's happening within the scene and what's happening like within our modern world. Well, yeah. Well, that I can. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, I was gonna say like, you know, the whole game was based on obviously like the first game you play the very first Resident Evil, you were either Chris Redfield or Jill Valentine. You had to play as both There there was no one person places this or you choose whatever.

You had to get through the story. You had to play as both. And you have to like they're they're obviously they're a member of the elite stars. They're investigating murders near Raccoon City and that uncovers the Umbrella Corporation and their laboratory experiments who created, you know, the nightmare that is zombie infested Spencer Mansion. And then the branching storylines and multiple endings depend on your player choices and if you survive at all. So it's like there was no fixed game story.

There was, but you had to get there and everything you did affected it. That was like the first of its kind. There was no other game that did that. Yeah. And and to to kind of what kind of talk or go back on that thing that you did mention, by the way, Lavender on the what was the what was the you were mentioning about the difference? I guess, I guess kind of story shift when it came to the whole like zombie thing. Yes and no, because I, I know a lot of like the background parts to it. A lot of this stems is because it's different antigens of the virus and they each have their own.

I swear I'm trying to look for my goodness. Mutagen. Not mutagen. It's each each one. Each each one has its own place of origin, like for instance I believe when it came to the well. The original was the T virus. The adrenal was T virus but there was actually some that were natural not unnatural viruses which some of them were parasites. I believe that might have been God. I'm trying to remember off the top of my head. I think that might have been 4. 4 was a parasite I believe. I believe that you're talking yeah, I believe 4 was the parasite.

You know who would really know the entire everything about Resident Evil is a big shout out to our Scarlet that like this is her wheelhouse and and I wish that we had gotten her on today, but she had to work unfortunately so because she would have a fucking Oh my God. Scarlett would be just the hyperfixation station would just take off at 30,000 mph and we would never be able to get her to stop and I'm living for it.

But but. Yeah, no, you're right. I'm kind of getting back on that on that subject. There, there is different there. It's the technically they're not zombies, but they are. And it's like it, it, it's, it's weird. They're like kind of the best way is just honestly using Resident Evil terms. They're just BOWS, like all of them. It doesn't matter one way or another, one way or another. They're all like they're all made, or at least purposely made. Yeah. Oh, 100%. And I think an amendment of my statement is when I was saying more zombie focused, I meant kind of like first person shooter zombie focus versus like horror scares.

So that's on me if we're not like are. You talking about, are you talking about more in third person view like how the other ones were or is what perspective are you? Well, you don't want to. Change. Things you guys got to understand like the game play and the mechanics of this game were different because it was like Resident Evil gave you fixed camera angles, you couldn't look around, tank style movement, pre rendered backgrounds. You know, like you had very little ammunition, very little health.

You had to do all sorts of fucking puzzles the you know, and then on top of that, you had to you had limited save opportunities. It's not like you could just hit the the start button and save your game. You had to be able to with an ink ribbon like so you like, this was very intricate, very much so that like you had to know what the fuck you were doing. And every single time, like no, like that game started it all and it only continued as like we talked about the systems evolved, the games evolved, the mechanics evolved, the stories evolved.

And I love that Resident Evil was able to not just evolve in all these ways, but it was able to build upon its own lore and then still be able to circle back and keep true to the source material. Here, I mean they did kind of do with the more recent one. They kind of did like a mix of both actually. I love that. Which again, I, I'm, I'm not against it. There are some people that are just like purists and they started like, oh, why are we doing this whole first person thing? I don't like it. I keep it at their I'm like, I like it.

It's OK. Do I prefer the third person? Mainly yes, because of I don't know, I like seeing the character, especially if it's like if I'm you know, it's it's Grace, you know, we're playing as Grace. This isn't like just like how it was with Ethan when it came to Village and Ethan. 'S freaking hands. Oh, poor Ethan. Yeah, like, yeah, like his weird. Oh my God. You know what's funny? I actually saw an animation on that on Ethan and like how he does his healing animation where he just pours goo all over his hand just to heal himself.

I can it's it's nightmare fuel because he's just like he's just looking so blank space because obviously they did the game in first person, so his his face is not animated in any way. So yeah, but, but yeah, like I, I personally like the third person. And also, I like it because of, again, if you're changing costumes or anything like that too, which I, I kind of like doing that, you know, because when you get those extra little DLC bonuses, you kind of like seeing the costume. Yeah, if I'm going to, if I'm going to unlock something, I want to be able to see that that when I'm using it.

Yeah, not just on cutscenes, yeah, but that's that's like a whole different reason, like behind it. And also, I don't know, it's more just because it also gives me a good feeling, especially when it comes to another franchise, which is the Dead Space. Franchise. I heard there's so the. Dead Space franchise I hear is very, very good, yes. It I'd arguably say it was definitely one of those big staple games that definitely revolutionized the the horror genre within games. I don't disagree with you, but you skipped ahead by almost 10 years.

No, I'm not. I'm not saying I'm not. Obviously there are other games too. Yeah, I mean in terms of third person perspective. Yeah, in third person perspective, I'm not gonna Yeah, but we're like, that was from 2000 and. Eight, yeah, and but we also do have other games too as well, which are you were mentioning the Silent Hill series, which is also a really good one. Yeah, I mean. Some of them, some of them are kind of, I don't know, I guess based off of majority I, I, I think otherwise mainly just because it's just like, it was good.

It wasn't terrible. I've played terrible games before. Well, here's the thing. Silent Hill kind of went it. Was the 3rd. Silent Hill kind of went in a different direction than Resident Evil, because this is psychological horror.

Yeah. I know like, like Lavender was saying like they went, there are so many different ways to give you the horror as as Lavender was saying last in our our podcast last week, that there are so many different levels of horror. And the what I love about the video games that we got that we that helped push what I think is best. Yes, Silent Hill is still considered a survival horror game, but this is more psychological that where I would say that Resident Evil is a little bit more gore. And if we what what do you kind of doubling back that that space really quick that actually, believe it or not?

I mean, have you played the I don't remember. Did you ever play the Dead Space series or no? I have not Lavender. Have you played it? I haven't either. I've actually I've just heard really good stuff about it. Like a lot of people have told me that I would like it because I love Alien Isolation. Like that's my all time. Yeah, yeah, that one was also a very good one. I think Alien Isolation, that one came afterwards. It's not a mistake. It did. It did. So that's why people always found one to play Dead Space, because they're like, oh, you love Alien Isolation?

Check out Dead Space. Yeah. No, completely. Yeah, so. What I was going to say is when it came, sorry, when it came to the the reason why I brought up Dead Space 2, not to the game, but that space in general that also does have good amounts of levels of my goodness, psychological horror. It has actually a mix of both very heavily actually, which is actually one of the reasons why a lot of people give it such praise the way that they do and the process in which they actually went about creating the game was also in and of itself, I think also horror.

I, I, I don't know if you guys heard anything about that by chance or no? About what? The the the in the production of the game, what the artist had to do. For Dead Space, no. No, I haven't. Oh, OK, so this one you're going to, you guys are going to get a good treat out of this. Oh boy. They actually after they were done, they have to get therapy after making this game actually. Therapy. Like, everyone needed therapy after making this game because when it came to the artists especially in particular, they had to look at images of people who died in car crashes.

Oh, and we're talking about not, not just, and we're not even talking about just like a, you know, a, a limp body that just is intact. We're talking about, like, mutilated. Like, like that's how bad. Yeah. You're already like, Dave's already laughing because he knows it's what I'm talking about. No, I'm laughing because I've seen that. No, exactly that, but but that's what I'm saying. You know what I'm talking about, so exactly my point. Oh my. God, so you know, you know how bad it is if people who are not used to that, right?

And they really had to do that in order to create the creatures that we know today within that franchise. They had to do that just to create that whole video game. That's sick. That's like make. That's like sitting somebody do that is like some fucking bullshit where they like fucking Clockwork Orange, where you're forced to sit in a chair and your eyes are held open and you're just fed images of death of just the worst fucking shit. Those poor people. Oh my God, yeah. Yeah. Holy shit, it was. It was.

Bad. Holy shit. Like I think that someone wrote like a whole article on it or something. I believe it. Well, I, I remember. I remember. Everybody. But it was bad. It was bad, but it was. But hey, it created grant prayers to everybody, all the artists that go about that, so hopefully they're all doing OK. We wish them well. They. Did create something. Oh yeah, of course I'm not going to be an asshole and be like, they'll be OK. No, I mean. You could be an asshole. You're kind of an asshole. You're definitely you.

You definitely an asshole in this case.

No. A little bit, a little bit. You're a little bit of an asshole. No, but it's just more just, you know, you could see the amount of work that was put into it, which is insane. And it came out, you know, to the to the level that we got where it's a good hybrid mix between the two different genres. Like we were just discussing between psychological and zombie or more physical gore horror. At the time of release that game was pinnacle of gore like it was. We really want to get into it like. Well, we I think you skipped over a whole bunch of fucking games, Crimson.

No, we're going to be, we're going to be jumping back. We don't have to go on the same timeline. How dare you? We're going back to other ones. How dare you. These games deserve their fucking due and you are just going off about this goddamn game series? No, So you shut up and you listen about how you give these other games their respects, Sir, How dare you. We're going to. We're just not going in orders. I'm going to order you to go in order. No, it's fine. It's. Fine, it's fine. But yeah, but but no, like when it comes to that, I mean, it, it you could tell when they were creating that game that they've took stuff from previous old games.

Like it's not just like, oh, Brandt's making. They they made a masterpiece off of just the backs of the horror genre, like, and a couple of the masterpieces too. I mean, we can even add a couple in there from older generations. We're talking about like PlayStation one too. Like there was another one besides Resident Evil, but I believe. Silent Hill Fatal Freight. Nightmare nightmare creatures as well. Can't you got to give that one its credit? Yeah, you do. Nightmare Creatures, not, it's not like a like everyone knows that type of game, but it is one of those games that I think they had three.

I believe it's three games. Nightmare creatures. Nightmare. Creatures. I don't know if they had three games, they may have all been indie though. Those are may have all been from indie. I don't believe so. OK then double check my double check my shit. Like I'm pretty sure Nightmare Creatures was was an indie released game and that became popular and that finally got picked up by a by by a company. But you have all that fun stuff. And then you have Silent Hill, you have Fatal Frame, you have all these.

Yeah. I mean, you have Phasmophobia, Lethal Company, Five Nights at Freddy's. They do have 3. I love Five Nights at Freddy's. That stuff is my shit. Yeah, Poppy's play time, but this this, this also like bleeds into like the next conversation that I want to talk about and is that is the the YouTube streamer era, you know, that's also really heavily influenced horror and video games like games became performative, you know, like. Really. They have, they did and they, and then you got to understand like they, they had streamer bait, they had TikTok moments, they had audience participation, they had jump clips.

Fear became social and it's like digital seance with a voice chat and bad financial decisions.

OK, I think. Go ahead, Lavender. What were you going to say? I would think a lot of YouTube really created the big boom around horror games. Like we've talked many times about Markiplier on this show, specifically about Iron Long, which is a great example of a horror game that was able to gain notoriety. Because it's not saying Iron Long isn't a great game, but because Markiplier put it on his platform and brought it up to the place where it eventually got to the point where people were spending hard earned money to not only get the game, but to then see a big screen adoption of it.

The same goes for Five Nights at Freddy's. And I mean, Five Nights at Freddy's constantly goes ahead and really honors the people that helped it grow. Like, for example, the movie adoption. They had Jacksepticeye in the movie Adoption. They had him voicing one of our animatronic friends. That is true. So it really makes sense the way that horror games have come to like immortalize YouTube even within their own cultures because they know that they really helped push them forward. Like even something as simple as watching Markiplier, Like there's so many indie games that I know about because Markiplier did really engaging run throughs of them.

Like I just recently started playing with my partner there Hello Neighbor, which I knew nothing about until Marshall Fire and some other Youtubers did walkthroughs and I was like wow this is actually something that'd be totally up my alley. It's puzzle heavy, it's first person, like kind of survivalist but in a way that's really unique and different. And I would have known nothing about it if random Youtubers didn't just say, hey this is a fun jump scare game, let's go and play it and have our audiences participate.

Yeah, like, let's not get it twisted. YouTube really, really gave us a lot of access to games that we may not necessarily have known about because these Youtubers did these run throughs. Like also games that I probably would have been like I seen on this on the shelf and would have been like, you know, and just not wanted to play because it wasn't my that wasn't my series. You know what I mean? Like, like I said, Resident Evil in Silent Hill, that's my series. I never would have given some of these other games a second look because I would have been like, eh, they're probably just a knock off of everything else.

Oh, a million percent. Also just wanted to throw a side note there by the way Jade, when you said when you were asking about Nightmare Creatures, it was actually owned by a company, not an indie like it was actually they had different headquarters stationed in the US. You can Japan, they're required by but you were right. They were acquired by another company, which was Scoopy Soft because the company went out of business and it never, they never really officially like came out and cancelled it.

They were just, they kind of quietly cancelled and that was back in 2004 that it was supposed to be like released in 2003. But that was around the time that the Calisto Company or Calisto Entertainment, that was the original owners of the franchise. They kind of like quietly, after they acquired it from Calisto, they kind of quietly cancelled it since I guess maybe there just wasn't a plan for it. They have the rights to it still to this day, so if they ever wanted to bring it back up they could, but I think it was a pretty decent one.

Is this Crimson's silent plea to the video game gods for them to bring the series back and give us a fourth installment? No, no, no, no. The third never was released. Oh, so then it was are you, are you asking the I will amend my statement. Are you asking the video game gods to grant you a third installment? No, but a remake would be nice and then they could maybe do an installment. For them, how dare you remakes. Remakes. No, no, that is sacrilege. Listen, believe it or not, no. No, if they're done right.

If they're done right. But when have you ever seen when have you ever seen a remake done right? Resident Evil 2. All right, fine, I will concede that point. But tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me another one besides Resident Evil 2, motherfucker. Dead Space remake. Was there a remake? Yeah, the first one was remade that I. First one was remade and it was peak because they even added extra lore to that story which is amazing. And isn't he finally voiced like it? Wasn't Isaac a silent character in most of the Dead Space games until the remake?

No, he was. So when it came to the first game, yes he unless, unless he was talking to people, which eventually everyone just started dying and he was literally by himself the whole fucking time. So. The only time that he would even talk to anyone is if they were still alive. Jesus Christ. And even then, so there was still like trunks in between where it was just silence and it's just the background noises of like all the the fucking horrors of going on in the Ishimora so. So like, OK, I have a question.

I have a question. Psychological horror versus monster horror. Monster horror is obviously what's considered zombies, mutants, slashers, the big ugly thing in the hallway, you know. Swap man. Right then you have the psychological horror, which is grief, isolation, guilt, existential dread, memory, distortion. But when these two come together and create an unholy baby. Oh yeah. Would you say that is Dead Space?

Very much. So there you go. So Dead Space is an unholy baby that confines both, Yeah. Yeah, because believe it or not, because of that, Well, First off, for those who don't know, I'm just going to briefly describe it. So if you guys, anyone out there who's interested, has never played it and are interested in playing it, there is this one thing that's called the marker. I'm not going to go into any specifics on it because again, not trying to spoil anything. That marker is essentially what causes people to go crazy.

And that's all I'm going to say on the marker. That also in the same process, causes people to hallucinate. Hallucinations. That's it that Isaac is on. Picked up a marker from one of the planets it was digging on that that essentially was causing a lot of people on the ship to go insane and causing Isaac to go fucking that shit and start hallucinating people who he thought was still alive but they're not and just people in general that maybe have already died and he knows they're dead but then they just attack him psychologically.

Or the marker does. And I'm not going to specify as to what happens if the marker succeeds and it's psychological attacks spoilers not doing that. No, we don't do that in this House. If you're interested in doing it, yeah, If you're interested in finding out, play the damn game. It's worth it. You're a monster. You're a monster.

But yeah. But in but. That's honestly the best I could describe is for both. Yeah, but like, then to, to go back into it, it is also like, now I'm talking about like going, we're going to circle back where like, I thought that what you were talking about was an indie game. Indie horror is the, I believe it's the number one in video games right now. Like you can't sit there and tell me that it's not indie devs. They get weird in the best fucking way bro like. Oh, yeah. But that's also the thing too, because they're not trapped by CEOs or investors be like, oh, you know, you got, you got to follow trends.

You got they're willing to take the risks for those games, which is why we get a lot of the good games that we have today. Yeah, that's just exactly what I was about to say. But thank you for saying it. Thank you for saying it for me. Thank you so very much for saying that for me. Listen, we're on the. We're on the same wavelength. Yes, we are. What about you, love? Do you agree that indie horror kind of dominates a little bit more than I would say the mainstream games that we get like, again, no shade to the to the the franchises, but indie horror, yeah.

100% I mean like we have to always remember that a lot of games that are now franchises at least within the last like 10-15 years started as indie games. Like Five Nights at Freddy's was an indie game hobby play time. Is an indie game that is now getting like broadband recognition, and I think that's what really solidifies a lot of interesting ideas in horror, like especially playing Hello Neighbor. I personally didn't know that there were three other games in the series at that point, but playing it now, it's interesting to me what things have really kind of were built into this original indie horror game that now permeates across newer games that are coming out.

As I remember correctly, it was one of the first games that started using very early ideas of AI. So essentially what it did was it created this house that you need to break into and save someone who's trapped in a basement and you're creeping near his house. And then the idea became every time you try to get into the house and you get caught and like a back end engine builds a new house within the game. Randomizes. It pretty much, yeah. So every time you play. Oh my God. Curates it based on what you did to get into the house and or what steps you took.

So like I have to sit there exactly. So if you have one specific tactic you're using in that game, it builds it into the game system and then like the AI, like non playable player will then know what your tactic is and then you'll need to completely change tactics because you can't do it anymore. Oh my God. Like I think one of the things that I saw, and I think Mark played that same game too, if I'm not mistaken. Knowing him, he probably. Did. Oh yeah, no. He did, I remember on one of his playthroughs on it they and you could see it like when they're actually like Lavender was saying like once you get caught like say for example if you knew where a key was or a door and then it'll just randomize where the keys position is.

Then afterwards it's an entirely other side of the house. Oh my God. Currently we're struggling with I'm a big puzzle game horror Girly Ralph is not as much. And so the biggest thing was we he put certain tools down. I was like, no, you're going to need them later. And he was like, no, no, no, it's fine. He put. We can't find them now. Oh God. They're in a completely different part of the house and I'm like, Rob, I told you we would need the grow bar. Rule #1 In any horror game, you. Don't. Rule #1 Unless it literally breaks on you, you don't get rid of it.

Exactly as many horror games as I do. So it's been kind of like hysterical. Like he plays way more video games than me, but I like primarily do like very specific like genre games that I love. So I'm like used to that more. So it's hilarious because I was like, I look away for 10 seconds. You threw away the crowbar while I was on the toilet. And now we're doomed. Like, that's it. We'll never find it at that. Literally, if that doesn't describe the perfect horror trope of anything, it's like all I did was go to the bathroom and now I'm dead.

Yeah, I got me and. Now we're we're doomed. And now we're dead. But I will say, playing off of that in the indie game sphere, I really kind of want to shout out some early systems that really revolutionized horror gaming beyond just PC for a moment. So like, as we were talking, I was like, Oh my gosh. I was remembering like my real first exposure to a horror game, and it was actually on the Wii. The Wii. Which one? It was called The Calling and it was on the Wii. And I thought it was so cool because one of my best friends brought it over to my house.

And the way that it functioned, it was like a Japanese horror game. And the way it functioned was the Wii Remote was a flashlight. Oh my God. Everything. Was in the jar I remember. This I think I remember this one. And I thought it was so unique and I kind of nipped having systems like that, like and I don't know why they don't do it, have more games like it and maybe they do. I could be wrong. They. Do I do believe? I on the switch. If I remember correctly, I think that they released a game when they had did the the the fucking virtual reality PSPS, PS4, PS 5 stuff.

Yeah, they have that in a certain way, like where you can do that, where you, you know, one controller is a flashlight, the other controller is your weapon and or your hand or whatever, something like that. I think they built on what the Wii did. I think they did. I actually specifically remember people whose names that we will not mention when we would go over to the place that does not exist anymore, to that apartment that they would play that game, If I remember correctly, and I think it was the Jason Horror game that they had where you had to escape Jason.

It was for Friday the 13th. I believe that's the game that they were playing. It was Friday the 13th. Rest in peace Friday the 13th. A game. Yeah, I miss you dearly. Yeah, but I believe that they built upon those mechanics that you're talking about from the Wii and did that in virtual reality, which makes it even fucking scarier because you're in, you're immersed in that fucking shit. Yeah, because I thought it was such a cool concept to have a completely dark room and you're going through like they have this like web page called the Black page that like brought you into the supernatural world of the abyss and it was all black.

And it would it would serve as your flashlight. It would also serve as like your cell phone to like open up if you were trying to call somebody. It served as all these handheld things that you would possibly have in this. You're a person that's but just been dropped in a horror world type of scenario. And that's what really got me hooked on the genre because I thought it was such a cool concept and I am a sucker for paranormal horror. So I love that it was very like ghost story based and like the speaker, it would kind of like pretty 8 atmospheric horror.

Like it would like actually like pull sound through the WE speaker. It was like close to your face when you were using it as a flashlight. Yeah, so fucking cool. Emotional. Damage. So to circle back, since our Crimson was so hyper fixated on this, Dead Space would fall into cosmic horror.

Yeah, cosmic horror I think works best when the game refuses to fully explain itself. You know what I mean? Like the Lord just sits there like cursed. Soup. It's delicious, it's disturbing, it's going to give you a heart attack like, 'cause it's so full of sodium. Like you're like, you're powerless, you're insignificant and you're trapped in unknowable systems. Like there is no fucking way that cosmic horror cannot make you not feel that way. It just does not happen. Like you're you're fucked and you know it.

But I will say this in every Dead Space game, which I always found with just like, oh, this is so bad because for those that have at least seen the creatures, you know what I'm talking about you better. You don't even bother with a gun. You need something that cuts piercing rounds will do nothing

but the fact that in the first. First game yes, Second game I believe also yes. Third I can't confirm because I did that one. It kind of foggy from time to time, but you always start the game with nothing. And we're talking about like not even the main weapon or the the basic weapon, which if you're dealing with the creatures that you're dealing with, run, run because that is all you can do. It's not even like, we're not even talking about like like level of like zombie where it's like kind of just like slowly, like, you know, limping its way towards you.

We're talking about like damn near Usain Bolt level speed running at you type of insanity. So you know what makes me laugh though about that trope is the fact that like, there are so many tropes in video games that like, literally are either going to just scar you for life or you're just going to sit there and be like really really like like seriously like why the hell am I forced to read notes that were written 5 seconds before somebody's dead? Oh yeah, that you see that a lot in Dead Space. I'm going to just say that, right?

That's what I mean. And like and then like you have like fucking. Just one or two either. No. And then, like, you have flashlights powered by optimism like Lavender mentioned in her game, like, you know, like these are just, these are tropes that are just like so ridiculous but so good. You want to know something funny that actually created? I don't know if it would be considered creating its own trope, but Dead Space kind of like. Let me just say this, once you play this game, if you were not scared of air vents, you will be after.

Oh my God. It's like why do I hear noise in the air vent and all you hear is just rustling and banging and just like OK no. Oh my God. Like. Hilarious to me. I need you, Lavender. I need you to tell me, like, what scarred you the most about the scariest game you've ever played?

Oh, that's kind of hard because like, I think probably it would have to be when I first played Calling because it was my first real like gateway into like horror video games. And I was like 12, No, OK. And my friend had brought this over and it was like a big deal, right? Because it was like a rated T game. And we were like, Oh my God, we're going to play it. And we were so like edgy and we were both really in and like this is before anime was like super, super popular too, right? So like we were kind of like.

The the the. Weird. I don't want to call us weirdo kids, but it's the truth. We were like the weirdo kids that were like we watched all the anime and all of every single sketchy website we could find. We would have like anime nicknames for each other. So the fact that we got our hands like on this like Rated T Japanese horror game that just came over from Konami for the Wii was like a huge deal, right? And we get this game and the way that the game functions. And while people kind of say like this is a downfall, I really liked it and I understand why.

Like older players were playing it were like, well, it made it like really susceptible to glitch. But the thing about that game was everything was completely powered by motion. So no matter what you were doing, all of the game elements would pop up because of some form of motion you made. You could literally just be like picking up the remote and something would come at you. No. It was so great and like I would love to see if they ever and like I don't know if it was really popular enough for them to ever make a like a hardcore like remake of this game.

But if they ever chose to make a remake for this game for the Nintendo Switch where I could play it with my two switch controllers on the TV, I would spend whatever money was possible to re experience that again. We jumped. Out. OK, so. I'd want something to run at me every 5 seconds without actually doing something that warrants it running at me. My. Fucking nervousness. Of the game again.

Lav what was the name of the game again? Calling. Calling. OK, falling. OK, so I was, I was going to say my nervous system could not handle that. I'm already in. I'm already living in a state of like at almost all times where I'm just my fists are up, my claws are out, my fangs are ready. Like somebody runs at me, I'm going to put you in the ground. I'm going to kill you. I'm going to make sure that you don't get back up to hurt me. So like, yes, OK, maybe it would be a fun game for me to play because it would get out a lot of aggression.

But also, fuck no, Absolutely the fuck not. Absolutely the fuck not. What made it more interesting was there were four different perspectives you could play from. It would give you 4 different story pathways of how the ghost would interact with you. Because the whole idea was that you went on this forum, which is like very Japanese horror. You know, you went on this online community forum that supposedly allows you to talk to ghosts and all of these 4 characters with their own intentions decide, yeah I'm going to try this really bad idea.

And then you end up in literally like a purgatory hellscape.

It was the greatest thing, it really was, and I will never forget my first jump scare in it. And I will always tell people I would pay anything for we for Konami to bring it over from Wii to the Nintendo Switch. Give it to us now at Same question. Same question for Crimson. I need to know which game, and I have a feeling I already know what you're going to say. Scarred you? No, I need to know. Give me your. Scars scarred. Me. Give me your scars. Well, Dead Space was was one of them, but not the one.

Oh, never. The shock. The one, the one that it, it's going to sound stupid, but it was just something about it that really, really bugged me up. OK. Which, you know, it's funny. It's not even just a horror, but it's more of an action based game. OK, what was it?

Oh, prototype, Prototype. Prototype. Prototype. I think I play. Prototype is more. Prototype is more action based. But the combat, like people are dying like crazy. It's an infection. It's you could say it's kind of zombie base, but think of it like zombies but infamous if you know the game. OK, OK.

So, but it was, there was something about that, like Dead Space fucked me up pretty bad, but there was something about that. I think it's just the way the honestly, it's just the way the monsters were able to move. It was just like it was just frightening. Like at the time for me, like that was that why I would say is the first game to catch me like that, where it just like fuck, like, you know that meme with that sound where it's like, fuck, that was me when I thought I could get away climbing up a building and all I see is a fucking big ass monster swinging A haymaker at me.

And I'm just like, oh, we're on that type of time today. I'm just like, OK, yeah, didn't, didn't expect that. So and that that shit caught me pretty fucking hard. Like after that, I was just like, I had, I think I even, I think I even ended up having a nightmare at the time. That was around the time that, yeah, I had a fucking nightmare. I was on a building and it was all the monsters were just like that. I saw them from up top one of the buildings and I was seeing them devour somebody and I just see one of them look up at me.

I'm like, and I just started coming up, climbing up the building. I was like oh fuck. Oh my God. And I think, I think I also woke up just before he got a chance to grab me, which I was just like, oh fuck yeah. Oh man. That's insane. I don't know. So for me, I they mentioned that, you know, the three Ogs. One of them was Fatal Frame. Now I played the first one and I was like, OK, this is fucking creepy. I don't fucking like it. But what fucked me? Up. Was Fatal frame 2 Crimson butterfly that fucking fuck you that game?

So basically we didn't really talk about it too much, but TLDR Fatal Frame actually is. You fight, you're fighting ghosts, but the only way that you can see them is through a fucking camera. That's so fucking cool. I remember this one, yeah. So. The the. Yeah, well, the second one, the second one forces you to look directly at them to be able to fight them. You could not run away. You it literally forced intimacy with the fucking fear instead of letting you avoid it by seeing the fucking shit on your camera and running in the other fucking way.

Fuck you. Absolutely the fuck not it Like literally there were sometimes where like you would take a picture and it would just be like bong right on top of you and you're just like and then you're already in a fucking battle and you're just you're dead. So fuck that game. It gave me nightmares for years, which is funny considering I love photography and it's probably the reason why I loved the first game so much because I was like, oh, and I was into ghost. I was like trying to be a ghost hunter when I was younger and all sorts of fucking shit.

That game very quickly goes that made me go Nope, I will not be doing that anymore. Fuck you. I don't want to play this game anymore. Thank you. Please bye. Like, no, absolutely the fuck not. No. Alien Isolation was another one that fucked me up too. Not anywhere near as badly as Fatal Frame 2, but Alien Isolation definitely made me fuck. Like just no. Because yeah, yeah, that thing was able to adapt to you. Fuck you, I hate you. No, I don't like it. But final thoughts give me. I think for me, one of my final thoughts for I guess the genre of or is I think we're looking pretty good honestly, for the future of the the the genre.

We're getting a lot of different types of games being released, you know, as some even still revolutionizing the genre itself and really giving us that sort of, I guess, for lack of a better words, like getting real intimate with the horror in our faces and just really kind of, I guess, really kind of brings out the best of the genre. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Nice, nice lavender. I think in terms of final thoughts, I really appreciate video games for giving a whole layer of horror, a whole new layer of horror.

And it's kind of like what we're talking about, like these survival games, these first person games. Like I feel like they really created the blueprint for a lot of horror with that would then come to pass and a lot of horror that's being adapted into film. And I think even as much as I do think the Fight Nights at Freddy's movies are so fun, I wish they would make an offshoot movie where it's it's all done from that first person perspective because I would just love to see it. But I really appreciate what it's done for the genre, the way that it's adapted for the mechanics of video games, the way it continues to tell really interesting stories while also staying fresh, staying relevant.

But bringing back older games like as you were talking about for Fatal Frame, for example, like Fatal Frame 2 had an incredible remake. And I think that proves that horror games are still really relevant in the market now. And I think it says so much for what we enjoy culturally, what we enjoy about the genre. And I'm really excited to see like, as these YouTube creators, these folks that were actively bringing this content forward and building the popularity around that content, start getting involved with making their own horror games and their own horror movies, seeing where that takes them in the reinvention of the genre just overall.

Yeah, totally agree with you. Unlike all those points.

I will say my final thought is that while we are living in a renaissance of the entire horror genre, we have to thank video games and particularly Japanese created video games. I'm going to be very specific here because those fucking games are always the creepiest. Don't care, they are like fuck you #1 But I will say that the video game genre itself, that the horror genre in video games are what fueled Movies Now. Because we were able to get away with doing shit in those video games that you would not be able to get away with now if you just put it out there in a movie or ATV show, it would be heavily censored and all sorts of other shit.

So thanks to video games, we are able to do some of the things that we can do in the horror, in movies, TV and everything like that because of video games. And they need to get you put respect on their names. And that's all I'm going to say on that. So that's my final thought.

What do you think, guys? It's time to call it. Time to call it. We're going to go because you know, we got things to do. Got to get ready for all of our events. Guys, are you there? We're I think we're getting, I think we're getting just a little bit of static here on your end here, Jay. But try closing us off here because I think we're I think we're pretty much got all those thoughts in. Yeah, absolutely. Here we go. No, yeah, you're right. We did. But so if you guys are not following us on all social media, why you really should because like, honestly, there's so many one amazing and wonderful things that we're putting up on the TikTok, on the Instagram, on the Facebook, like where we're going to be next, how to get in touch with us, how to give us your feedback on anything that we're talking about.

So if you're not following us on social media, you're lame and your zombie fodder. So on that note, everybody say bye bye, burn in fire, ice from vain. Which is. Blood in my veins. Darkness. Cannot hold me, change phoenix or never change.

The Feinics Gate Podcast - Issue 172 - Press X To Panic

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