The Feinics Gate Podcast - Issue 166 - The Anatomy of Cheating

Ladies, now it's Showtime. Let's show them we can rise from Ash, Jane, Lavender and starlet Phoenix power. So can go where we rise. They tried to ban us when we like a flower. They didn't know we had a Phoenix's power. Phoenix Power. What's up everybody, it's your girl Jade Phoenix. We are back and we are talking about an episode today that has teeth. But first let me introduce my amazing Co hosts who are out there in their own individual nests. We got Crimson. What's up, buddy? How's it going everyone?

I'm good, I'm good. And we have lavender. All started when I was born. No, everybody. And if you haven't caught on, I'm very happy that Crimson is back again. He's back on the rotation, Yes. You missed him. We did Welcome back. Yes. Welcome back. Yeah, can you hear me? Yeah, it is. Oh, OK. I'm just making sure. I didn't know if my audio cut out for a little. Bit no, you're. Good. I wasn't happy to be back. We're happy to have you back. Exactly. It adds more, as I said last week, that masculine energy that what would we do without?

Pika pika. I don't know what would we do without exactly. Oh wait, I don't know. I know. Talk about girly shit. Yeah, exactly. Like almost like heart book episode question mark I. Don't. I well, books are for everybody, but for us we were we're going book girly territory territory. Yeah.

So tell us, Crimson, what is new in the world of the Griffins?

What's new as of lately, not a whole whole lot, but I've been been working on just some stuff on the back end for the business and everything for the talent touch. So just more logistic. Things Oh, it was very exciting. We love seeing people making moves. Of course we're making moves. The Phoenix Gate always makes moves, but the wonderful part about the Phoenix gate and the talent touch is that we are always somewhere like last week. Where were we last week? Oh, I was in Salem. Yes. I've never been to Salem before for like everybody I know, I know, I know.

Like people need to understand that. Like I for someone that has been a witch most of their life, if not all of their life, you would think that I've would have made a pilgrimage to witch Mecca in my earlier years. But no, I've actually never ever, ever made it there. Until this past weekend. I'm super excited you finally got there. Like as someone who's gone very frequently and makes it a point to go every year, I'm so excited you finally got to go and just feel all of the just magic that's in Salem.

Crimson, you've been to Salem, right? A good handful of times, yes. So you, you guys have both been quite a few times then. Yes, yes. Would you both be mad at me if I said I was not impressed? No, I wouldn't be mad because here's the thing, Like it is a very cute, like I really like it because it gives like whenever I'm like, wow, I wish I didn't live in New York. That's the place I picture in Salem because it's quirky, it's fun, but the reality is, is that it's just like a little quirky town, a little on the outskirts.

I wouldn't sit there and be like, Oh my God, you're the worst person ever if we're not thinking it was the greatest place in the entire world because it's just like any other fun little quirky town. But it has like a special place in my heart for like a ton of reasons. I mean granted I didn't do the tourist shit. Yeah, that's. What I was going to say, what parts of Salem were you really going out and exploring at? That's the real thing. I would want to ask about that. Well, that's the thing. This weekend I didn't really have a lot of time to do that.

Like we went, we went, we went up there, we were there. It was me and Lux. We had a photo shoot with the amazing light witch on. Oh, she's so fucking cool. You know, I'm so excited and I cannot wait for the Phoenix fans out there to see these photos of the winter's dough and the summer's fox. Like they're going to be so ethereal and amazing as as all of light works, which like all of light Witch's work is, you know, too many WS. And honestly, like we did explore a little, like we kind of just like went walked like because we were staying at a hotel that was down the block from the Witch house itself.

So. We were there and we were able to walk pretty much everywhere else. So we kind of just like walked the main thoroughfare, I guess, checked out all the stores that were there. Obviously we, you know, we, we went to black craft, we went to a couple of other the local shops and stuff. And, and don't get me wrong, very quaint, very cute, you know, cutesy pootsy stuff. I went in, of course I had to go into the card shop because, you know, that's what I do. I'm a nerd. Yeah. And look, it was cute, but maybe because I didn't do the historical stuff, it just didn't hit me, you know?

Like, it just was OK. You know, it was one of the things where it was like, I'm like, OK, why does everybody make such a big deal about this? It's gang. It's, it's I, I think it plays a big part. It's like, so when at least when it comes to me and the reason why I really do like the energy of Salem, it's more for those who don't really know, I do like hearing and listening to historical stuff.

Now, to what extent if I'm hearing the same thing I've been hearing from another, like another culture, I'm just like, oh, OK, cool. It seems like there's no difference there. But yeah, but if it's something that's like new or like completely different story from a different culture or whatever. And again, this is more of just like from one country to another or anything like that.

And the story is interesting. The Salem, the the Salem story itself is interesting. That's why I'm I keep I get very in engaged in it and a lot of the museums as well as attractions that they have over in Salem. I think I visited one of the attractions trying to remember what it was. Lavender. You probably might have been through it, but it's this one where they have a whole sort of, I want to say it's like theatrical, but like, it's like they they have a stage, they act out a certain scene within some part of history when it came to the Salem witch trials.

The witch trials. And all of that and they. Have all the dioramas right when you go downstairs. OK, yeah, I was just going to say that. But not only that they have the dioramas down there, but there's also one key thing that they also have down there. Do you know? Do you remember? I can't think of it off the top of my head. You might need to. I, I think, I think it's probably one of the bigger ones. It's the giant wooden pillar that they have from the original location when they were doing a lot of these trials from I believe.

Wow that's really cool. But like the one time I did it me and my brother actually were joking about it because the the tour guide that we had just looked like he wanted to like we were like he must have been broken up with or something because he was ready to just like kill all of us. He was like.

I was like, I actually feel bad for this guy. He was really, really. Like having a bad day. So we might have found out about the pillar, but unfortunately our tour guide was not really in the mood. Yeah, I mean that that is most likely what it is because I am also a student of history. I love that kind of stuff. I like one of my favorite pastimes is going to a museum and just spending the day there. So for me, not not experiencing the historic places is probably another reason why I was just like.

Yeah, I would say you would love like The Walking tours. I think personally of like historical things to do in Salem. The Walking tours are great, especially if you go with like I personally have a favorite because I've done The Walking tour a few times. I love like the Witch City walking tour because they're very history based and they'll actually like take you to every single location in Salem and it actually ends with the witch trial memorial area that they have now at the graveyard. Well, like I think that might have been something you would have liked.

It's. Definitely. Outside of the town. Yeah, it's definitely one of those places I want to go back. It's definitely one of those places I'm going to go back to. Yeah, no, I mean, and it's like, plus also like I had an agenda like we got there, it was already like mid afternoon and we had to check in and get settled and then we, you know, we explored a little bit, but everything closes at like 8 o'clock 6:00. Yeah. Massachusetts. So we, you know, there wasn't really much to do except go back to the hotel room and then of course, the the Saturday was spent doing the photo shoot and then coming down from that.

And we did have a nice dinner at a really nice place where, you know, it was just enjoyable. And then Sunday we literally got up, had breakfast and left. I know when it comes to the around the time of Halloween. I will not. Go during high season the stores tend to let me finish the The stores actually do tend to be open for longer last time I remember. They did mention that but I will never set foot in Salem during high season. Absolutely the fuck not. Nah, I'm good. Why would? Why wouldn't you again?

I don't want to deal with those fucking crowds. They're not there that that's not that bad. Oh, it's that bad? I've been there several times. They're in Halloween. I've been there almost every. Halloween. No, I'm like I go and it has a location. Yeah, like I go around early October, for example, because my brother's birthday is the very first day of October. So I go to visit him usually for almost a week because he lives in Boston. And we take the train over to Salem, which I love. I that's actually a great train ride, but it's a little thinner.

But even by then it's packed, which is why me and my brother got into just going to like local places. Like we found so many really cool, just like local neighborhood places because we just wanted to escape the crowds. And I think that's one of the really the things I love about Salem is just like the community and the actual people that live there. It's really fun to go somewhere like far from the tree cider house, which is just all locals and it's essentially empty of Taurus. And you really get to, like, know the vibe of the community there.

And I think maybe that was part of what you were missing too, you know, because you were just on that main stretch. Yeah, most likely. I mean, like we even asked around like where we could go and everybody was like, Oh yeah, it's very private. You know, you have to like, know somebody or you have to be local. And I'm just like, OK, cool, thanks for letting us know. And then basically, like, again, I did not have enough time and like, no, like I was with Lux. So, you know, did not really have that ability to go and do the things that I normally would do when I'm in a new place.

So maybe next time that's fine. But I kind of feel, and this is a nice little segue into what we will be talking about. I kind of feel like I got cheated on. I feel like I got cheated out of

my Mecca moment. You know what I mean? Like, I just set foot in the fucking place that I've only heard about, read about, fucking dreamed about, and I was just like, womp, womp. I was cheated. I was cheated, guys. And that's what I want to talk about today on today's episode. Yeah, it's cheating. Especially. When you build something in your head, it's like, what the heck? We're talking about cheating today. If you can't figure out what I am talking about, Phoenix Nation. Never could have guessed.

No. So here's the thing about cheating and this is a lot of thing like this is such a hot topic debate is what is cheating. What would you guys say constitutes cheating? Because there are many definitions of it and many levels of cheating because you could cheat on literally anything. You can cheat in a game. You can cheat on a partner, you can cheat on on on a friend. You can cheat on your diet. You could you know what I'm like. You see where I'm going with this? I'm cheating on my cat right now by petting my other cat.

Cats do take that very, very personally. That's why, that's why the podcast Katie was screaming. I don't know if you could hear that. So fair because my podcast Kitty is just staring at me from across my nest. Like, am I not just in your arms? Mother, Why must you work in toil? So I want to hear both of your definition of cheating. I think it depends. By definition, it depends. Yeah. That's, that's what I was going to say. Like it depends on what we're talking about here. Because people, that's the thing when it comes to this sort of situations, some people are a little bit more tolerable in that in those aspects, depending on what it is and the severity of it.

Yeah. Even sometimes one person can consider it severe, the other person doesn't well, but again, that that's that that's that's very that's all depending on what the what it is. Oh, so then let's go. Just to make like life a little easy, let's talk about what the actual definition of cheating is as per Webster's Dictionary. So the actual definition of cheating is the act of using dishonest, unfair, or fraudulent means to gain an advantage, break rules, or violate trust, frequently for personal gain.

It involves intentional deception in relationships, infidelity, academics, games, or business. Common synonyms include deception, broad betrayal, disloyalty, and swindling.

OK. I mean, that sounds about right to my definition. I mean, like, I guess what I meant by definition is like, especially in like the relationship area, it's definable. Like there's it's so it's defined by like so many different things depending on like what your lifestyle is, right? So like personally, like I'm monogamous, so I would have a different idea. Like I would consider something cheating that maybe like somebody else wouldn't on the offset visual. OK. I'm just the outside looking in. So in a romantic relationship, infidelity is defined as engaging in sexual or intense and emotional, physical or virtual contact with someone other than a committed partner, which is including the term micro cheating, which we will cover after I hear from Crimson.

Here in terms of like what, what do you mean by like trying to get some sort of answer again regards to what Caleb was talking about or what do you mean? Well, I mean, they're they give us basically four major forms of cheating, romantic relationship, academic, sports and games general. Deception and fraud I know, but what? What's the question you're asking me in regards to that? What? You know what? Honestly, I actually forgot my train of thought now. Thank you. Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

It didn't sound like a question. You were just stating things and then you were Crimson. What's your what's your thought? I'm like what? OK, well, it seems Lavender remembers. Yes, I was going to say Jade was trying to ask. Like I said, I agreed with the definitions that Jade shared. So but then my difference was oh but I would view things romantically differently because I'm personally monogamous. So some things from the outside looking in would look different to me than someone who's non monogamous and or ethically non monogamous.

Right? So your question was same thing. Applied Crimson. What do you think? That that's similar to what I had said previously. Like it all depends on a person's situation when it comes to a relationship in this in this in this case, right? So I mean, it really just all comes down to all right, Kayla, like someone like Kayla is monogamous or someone who's Polly or you know, it, it, it get it all comes down to what again, what is really considered cheating for some individuals? Like, for instance, like I know certain individuals who are just like, oh, if they're even just like liking a a random girl's picture, it's cheating.

And it's just like, OK, let's let's yeah, So that that and listen. And if if that's if that's their if that's your mojo and you that's considered cheating for you. OK, You know, you know, in the case of of, you know, a guy to a girl and that you know, it should it should apply the same no double standards then, if that's the case, correct. But exactly when it comes to situations like that, like that's obviously for me, I would consider that extreme. Other people may have different opinions on that.

OK, whatever is your objective for your relationship, that's your objective. That's how you want to roll. That's how you run things. As long as it's made clear from from out the gate. OK, cool. But yeah, no, like again, it's again, it's all circumstantial like it again, same thing. I'm just repeating and reiterating. It's just like it comes down to the individuals. And obviously for for the individuals, it has to be at least two people, so. So did you know that there are five different types of infidelity?

OK. I. Can't think I could name a cow, but yeah. Probably not fall. I mean they, they, they fall into five different types and I'm sure there are many more, but there are 5 main types of infidelity. Opportunistic, obligatory, romantic, conflicted, romantic and commemorative So opportunistic infidelity occurs when a person is in love and attached to their partner, but it succumbs to their sexual desire for somebody else.

So IE this is the kind of like cheating and infidelity that you would have. Like you go out with your friends to a bar and you get really fucking drunk and the next thing you know you're sleeping with somebody else. Yeah. Still cheating, but it's considered opportunistic. There's a. There's a specific category to it. Right. It's certainly not a fucking excuse at all. No, absolutely none of these are. Just so people know. These are not excuses, by the way. No, no, none of these. Are absolutely the.

Fuck, none of these are. Absolutely the fuck not. Hold the lever crunk. Then you have obligatory infidelity. This is a type of infidelity that is based on the fear that resisting someone's sexual advances will result in rejection.

They have a yeah, this is somebody that has like, a very strong need for approval. It's their need for acceptance that basically, you know, will cheat on their partner, not because they want to, but because they need the approval that comes along with having the attention from other people. Oh no, I know a. Handful of people like that I. See OK. Yeah, then you have romantic infidelity. Now this is this type occurs when the cheater has very little emotional attachment to their partner. They may be committed to their relationship and making it work, but they long for a very intimate, loving connection with someone else.

Yeah. Yeah, so like more than likely if the person is like married or in a long term committed relationship, their commitment to the marriage or the long term relationship will prevent them from ever leaving their partner, but their desire to cheat will continue until they sort out their issues and fuck like that. Yeah. Yeah, that is romantic infidelity, that is. That is. Yeah, still again people, not a fucking excuse. Now this is brings us to conflicted romantic infidelity. Now, this is the type that occurs when a person experiences genuine lud love and sexual desire for more than one person at a time.

Despite blood. I'm sorry. It just, it just sounded. It just sounded. Kind of funny what? It just I heard, I heard Lud. I said love. I just said you, you, you, you said it incorrectly. You you corrected yourself though, but I'm just saying it sounded funny. Now we know it's on. Crazy.

You're mean, OK. Listen, it's just funny. But anyway, you were saying your. Face is funny anyways. That's why I laugh when I look in the mirror every morning. I know. So despite idealistic notions of having only one true love, it is possible to experience intense romantic love for multiple people at the same time. While such situations are emotionally possible, they are very complicated and tend to create a lot of anxiety and stress. In this case, cheating partners in their attempt not to cause anyone harm and often end up hurting everyone.

Now, I'm going to circle back to that one because technically people who are polyamorous are would fall into this kind of infidelity. But again, because it's polyamory and there are established rules, it gets complicated and there's very, I think a very much large amount of Gray. So I would like to circle back to that, if you guys are OK with that. Yeah. Absolutely. So that brings us to the very last form of infidelity, and that is commemorative. This type of infidelity occurs when a person is in a committed relationship but has no feelings for their partner.

There is no sexual desire, love or attachment, only a sense of obligation.

Just get a divorce, right? You know, like at that point, like, just get a divorce. You know, it's easier for me to say as a woman who is not married, you know?

Yeah, it's really. Well, if that is the case, if that is the case, that brings me also to micro cheating. OK, now the definition of micro cheating are small, often subtle and repeated behaviors that breach trust in a relationship without constituting physical infidelity. This is not you going out, making out with somebody, or sleeping with another person. This is all the other shit that can constitute as cheating if your partner is uncomfortable and you keep doing it. So give me you guys. Give me an example of what you think micro cheating might be.

I would say, you know, I actually have a great example from one of my past relationships. This person would allow people to civically women, because this person was straight, would allow women to consistently hit on them in front of me and never do anything about it. Like right in front of me. Like she'd be like leaning over me to talk to him. She'd be like in like pushing herself into our conversation. She would not leave us alone. And I originally thought he would be doing it because he didn't quote UN quote understand.

But as soon as I would tell him I was just crazy. I was just jealous. I was just making stuff up and if it's very uncomfortable because it'd be like, well, that woman is obviously hitting on you. It's OK if you don't think she's hitting on you, but it's clear to everybody else at this table, could you please essentially just not humor her? That's all I was asking. And he would constantly let it happen and I was just crazy. That's what I would consider micro cheating. Yeah. Yeah, like that's literally emotional boundaries.

Exactly. But then he would accuse me of cheating whenever he would like, even though there was no evidence of it, whenever I would disagree with something like that because it also happened with someone in our shared workspace at the time.

Yeah. And then anytime I would say, hey, that makes me uncomfortable, he would accuse me of cheating on him all the time. And I was like, well, there's no evidence of that. I'm just asking you to respect my feelings. What about you, Crimson? I kind of agree in those cases, like it's the small stuff. I would even say as far as just like, like for me. And this and this is more this is so I'm trying to articulate my thoughts. So for me, if you're one of those people, and this applies to both men and women, not even just men, even if you're one of those people that go under someone's post on a regular basis and keep things like, oh, you're so hot, you're so beautiful or you're so handsome or you're like, and you do that on a regular basis, like like almost damn near every post bra

like. Is that cheating? You're, you're, it's, it's, it's getting to that point where it's even emotional cheating at that. To that, to that extent, you can even say it's that. OK, but no. It's not physical. It's like the equivalent. It's like the equivalent. Like again, if you're just like, oh, you're really pretty or whatever, it's just like all right. And but if it's like all the time, like you're just like essentially spamming their their posts constantly. So that person is the chief. Like, yes, OK, if you're if you're that type of person that that that's spamming someone else, like you have a you have a girlfriend or whatever and you're going on to someone else's post and doing that on a regular basis all the fucking time.

First off, I already know why you're doing that. It's kind of a dead giveaway. You're doing that more to seek out attention from the said individual. All right, especially if you're doing it regularly, like regularly, not like once in the bloomers, like, oh, you're really pretty. You're all you're so handsome in this picture. Nice, you got I like your suit or or anything like that. That's that's different. But if you're like on every almost damn near every single post, OK now. Now like you're adding yourself without really adding yourself.

Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Come on. Have either of you experienced this? Well, I mean Lavender just said that she has. Have you Crimson? Have I experienced this? Have you experienced micro cheating?

In this, no. In this case, I've seen situations like this but in reverse. Yeah, I've, I've dated someone before in the past who would mind you, they didn't even have to post up a picture of themselves. They put up just they were, they're they're that type of person that would typically shit post or whatever. OK, trolling. And yeah, shit post, they'll put something funny up or whatever, all right, cool, they'll put it up and on occasion, like either a dude that she knew or a random dude that would just she.

And mind you, this individual just accepts all friend requests. Oh. Why? Why? I do not understand. But the fact that some of these people would go under her posts, again, not selfies, and just say the most sexual things and all they would do would just laugh, react to it and not be like, yeah, I'm blocking this individual or that's just, you know, Yeah. What like that, that's, that's, that's not crossing a line, that's not crossing the boundary. I think that's, I think that's pretty like right out the gate crossing a boundary.

At that point, I don't disagree with you. I have been on the receiving end of that. I've also honestly, when doing research for this episode realized that I also am guilty of it because I did not realize that like certain behaviors would be considered micro cheating even of my own.

Yeah. You know, like, and here's the thing, once I'm not that kind of person, that's like once you tell me that I'm doing something that you don't like, I'm going to continue doing. I'm not going to do that as soon as you tell me that there is a behavior that you do not that my partner or or you know whatever tells me I don't like this, I immediately will change my behavior. And granted, I'm no St. here. Sometimes sometimes depending on the partner that I was with. OK, this is also depending on the partner that I was with.

I would not change my behavior for the good. Not proud of that, but at least I can take accountability. Exactly. Yeah. Now here's the thing, why do people cheat? Is it because they want to like or is it at the opportunity? Like, are they just selfish or they just, are they really going through like emotional neglect in their own actual relationships? You know, are they? I think again, it falls, it falls down to like a lot of factors on that. It does. Yeah, it does. Situation. Like. Sometimes let's just say this, we'll, we'll put a situation out.

Let's put something in perspective. So that way like you can get like a like a starting point with it. So say like you're someone, for example, there's nothing wrong with the relationship at all. Like nothing. You guys work well with each other. You know, there's, you know, no like arguments Cause let's, and I'm going to be, let's say just like, hey, let's be realistic here. There's no relationship that there's going to be 0 arguments. There's going to be some. Yeah, if you're not arguing, then you're not an.

Individual if if you don't, and for anybody out there, for anyone out there that thinks that 0 arguments in a relationship is your like goal, you're you're already failed before you even started. Agreed.

So aside that like the standard minimum, like, you know, back and forth arguing on maybe certain subjects or fix or situations, right that you go, you, you, you, you, you and the other individual get into the norm. Aside from that, everything else perfectly fine, right? There are still certain individuals that will still do it mainly for the sake of they like the, the adrenaline of it, the dopamine, the dopamine. It's like like I'm doing this. And the fact that it's in, sometimes the fact that it's in secret, That's the part that really gives the their that gets their rocks.

Off It's an addictive loop.

So I know there's certain individuals, yeah, there's certain individuals that that's, that's what they love about it. It's that's the fact of that, the fact that they're able to,

you know, it's like, oh, sometimes I'd be able to get away with like, you know, and, and again, this reiterating the relationship is perfectly fine. It it's they, they literally they'll, they'll even sit there and say I there's nothing else I would have wanted in a relationship, and they'll, they still do it. Now again, sometimes what's really sucks is that these individuals too will still continue along with their relationship knowing what they've done and probably still continue to do it.

It's, it sucks more for the other individual because the fact that you know, sometimes it's either with them knowing that it happened before and don't know how many times it's happened afterwards, if it, if they're still with them or not at that point, or just not knowing at all. And you know, I guess for the lack of better words, ignorance is bliss. You don't know if you don't stress about it. That's rough, buddy. I mean, so it comes down to, and this is like, were they unhappy or are they just trash?

I again some again it like I previously stated, it's not even because they were unhappy. It's just literally like you were saying. Honestly they're just garbage individuals. I mean the best way to put it. Listen, I am a person that has literally except for like 2-2 relationships that I've been in, I have been cheated on in every single relationship that I've ever been in. And I, and I don't mean like the little like flingy flings, you know, or anything like that. I mean every meaningful long term relationship that I've ever been in except for two of them and that is the most recent ones.

I've been cheated on every single one. So now here's the question, am I the trash or do I just date trash?

May I say you just date trash? Oh. Thank you. Not of your current relationship, but the reason I say that is because I have also fallen into that predicament. Even if it's like, you know, I was cheated on or they were just a shitty person, it can get really difficult to pull yourself away from that mindset that, oh, I must be the problem because someone else behaves a certain way towards me. And that's been something I really needed to deconstruct and really almost reframe how I view myself through therapy.

Because it's so easy for any of us to be like, oh, I date shitty people, so that must mean I'm shitty. When in reality, a lot of the time it's just you are very empathetic to certain people, you care a lot about certain people, you give a lot of yourself to certain people, and unfortunately shitty people will take advantage of that. That is true. Relationship wise or friendship wise? That is true. There's there's one thing I will say. There's also the option of also maybe just taking bad choices.

Yeah. You're looking for the wrong. You're looking for the wrong things. Where, because I'm going to say this too is just like, oh, you know, this individual looks like looks like a very like stand up individuals and they'll just jump straight into a relationship and not know again, not truly knowing how that person really is. Again, and I'm also taking into consideration, yes, there are certain individuals out there who are very good at masking. That's what I mean. That is the thing. I know I caught you.

I I caught you. I caught anybody before they said it because I already know. Not saying that, you know, not not saying that. Oh, you know, if you don't have patent, no, I understand there are individuals that are doing that are capable of doing that, but not everyone. So it doesn't mean now you just forego, you know, getting to know the individual and this and that and you just try to, you know, you still need to pay close attention to certain signs. Right, right. Certain behaviors and all that you'll, you'll kind of you'll kind of catch on when you, when you start like getting to know the individual a lot more and more, right?

Also, if you're getting a relationship and you do not spend enough time yet to solidify whether or not the relationship is valid, do not jump into it. And so you're absolutely certain. And if you're not capable of making the time, then maybe you shouldn't be spending or you know, wasting the other individuals time or wasting yours. I agree, you know, because honestly, it's still. Quote like my favorite show in Bojack Horseman. There's a great line where they say well with rose colored glasses all the red flags just look like flags.

So yes, we as people are capable of making bad choices, not to a detriment of we're bad people, but because we want to see the best in certain people or recreate ideas of people only for them to not really be the reality of that other person well. I think this is where boundaries and self respect come in. Oh, 100%. Because a lot of people are going to define, a lot of people are going to define cheating, and everyone's going to have a different answer. And I'm going to tell you strip right now. A lot of them are going to be wildly convenient, like.

Yeah. So I mean, when it comes down to it is someone who does OK, I'll give you 2 a scenario. You are with your partner for a year. Let's say that it's you guys hit each, you've hit a year and you find out that for the last four months, let's give it four months, that partner has been talking to other women and then in the last month or so has effectively started cheating on you behind your back. Do you? Well, yes. Do you now? Are you justified going out and cheating on your partner back? Or do you just do the right thing and end the relationship?

No, just end the relationship. Like I said, I have a very like we always kind of joke about it here on the cast. I have a very like morally like right or wrong sometimes way of thinking and I can't help it. It's it's what having an autism, right? So that would be my answer, but I don't want that to come off as I'm judging anyone who may have been caught in that situation and didn't I I? Say I I'd say I agree with Lavender because for me, I I've had multiple relationships where I've had a partner that cheated on me, right?

Bitches. I without no and a lot of people would be like, honestly, if you did the same would it it wouldn't like you would have been valid. I'm just like, why? Why am I going to waste First off, waste time and energy to do it because I'm just going to keep it real because I'm just like my time is precious to me. I'm not going to just purposely go look out for a fling to to mess around with just to get vengeful. Yeah, I, I, I get my vengeance in different ways. And two, why am I that sounded? Why, why am I exactly?

Why am I going to damn straight? Why would I damage my own character in a sense, And again, this is for me. This is my mindset. This is how it is for me. I would not damage my own character to be like, oh, given the right circumstances or whatever certain circumstances. Hold, cheat. No, I'm leaving. I'm out. You waste my time. The shit ain't right for you. OK, I'm out. That's it. Right, 100%. So, and I guess what I'm now, all that energy you got that was pouring into you, gone, gone. All all the nice little things that I bought you, all the nice little whatever things I would do for you, gone.

Like that's it. You ain't getting any more of that. Betrayal trauma is real. Yeah, so that's why I'm just like, you know what, I I as me as an individual, I just do it that way where I'm just like, hey, you're going to, you want to do it, cool, that's on you. You want to damage your own, you know, reputation and more and, and just sacrifice your own morals for, you know, whatever reason or whatever purpose you might have had to do it in the first place. By all means, the only person that's looking bad in this situation is you.

So I'm walking away, you know, but. Now here's. My my character stays intact. Here's my follow up question to that someone who is once a cheater, are they always a cheater or are can they be reconciled and never do it again? Like what would you trust someone that opens up to you and says I have cheated before in the in my past relationships but giving you. How long ago was it? Right, but that I'm asking like, what if they turned around and they gave you the same scenario where you know, my partner cheated on me, so I went out and I cheated on my partner kind of a thing, tit for tat.

Would that be a forgivable offense or is that just somebody that automatically is like, Oh no, I can't fox with you? Really. Depends. I know that doesn't pop out cancer, but it's the truth. It depends on the circumstance and I feel like I've grown enough as a person to like realize that. Like while I sometimes have black and white thinking, most human beings don't. So I can understand that things happen, but there needs to be like, I guess like a certain level of trust. With a person. For me to be like, OK, I totally like I understand you wouldn't do that to me type thing and I appreciate that you're actually telling me about it instead of keeping it from me.

So it's it's very situationally based. Yeah, I. Agree. What I will say, So what I will say is I I agree with Lavender, but to piggyback off of that, I'll even throw in some very specific things in there too when you mentioned the tit for tat you. May. It's tit for tat. Good. OK, when it comes to a tit for tat for a situation, one thing that sometimes will concern me about certain individuals is I've seen people who are like that, but do you even have to the other individuals doesn't even have to cheat in order for them to do that.

They'll just get into a big argument and they'll go and do it. And then that at that point it's like, oh, you pissed me off. I'm going to go fuck where I they won't say it, but they'll go and they'll do it like I'm going to go cheat. Exactly. Yo, is that that that that type of mindset. That's that's that already tells the that if as a person, if you're dealing with a partner that is like that, run, run. Do not stay. Don't try to be like, Oh, but you know, if I didn't make them upset or whatever, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no leave.

So that's your cue to exit stage. Left. Yeah, I'm going to say, and This is why now I'm going to circle back to what I wanted to talk about earlier, cheating versus polyamory. Totally different things. Agreed, but society as a whole does not view polyamory as anything more than ethical cheating or sanctioned cheating. I've heard it being referred to as that once in a while. As myself who is a polyamorous individual, I have heard that term thrown around where it's literally known as sanctioned or ethical cheating.

It's not the case. That's not even close to the case, but I would like to know your thoughts on it, because does that fall into the romantically complicated category of infidelity? Or is polyamory legitimate? Because I'm sorry, I fully believe that it is a legitimate fucking thing. I will even throw, I will even throw and this is going to sound like a a different topic in and of itself, but it it it's I'll even throw religion in there. OK. Anybody who says that also for one, I can really tell you're not cultured enough.

I'm a throw an insult your way. You're definitely not cultured enough because if you were cultured enough you would even see in different cultures there are men who have multiple wives. And women who have multiple. Husbands and they don't call that and they don't have and and they're not considered cheating. That's because it's part of their culture. So like you were saying there Jade, it's it's it, it comes down to the culture itself too, and religion, of course, but that that that falls with the culture.

Let's just go summarize it with culture. It comes down to the culture. OK, But in actuality, that's not really true because there's so many different like cultures that see it. Just like this isn't a problem, like this is actually very normal in this case. It's like, for instance, like for us here, especially now I'm going to, I'm going to throw LGBTQ, you know, into the mix a little bit too with this. Yeah. Because technically. Polyamory does go under the umbrella. Not even just that. I'm going to go even simpler.

Just the starting stages of it. When people were gay men, women, when they were just even openly gay, it was blasphemous. It was like you're going to burn in hell for, for, for your transgression, transgressions and, and for the actions that you're doing. Like now it's a lot more, I want to say 100%, it's a lot more accepted into the culture. Like you could, you could walk down the street as a gay couple and you won't have people fucking, you know, throwing out fucking curse words at you as fucking saying you're going to burn.

And like like now, nowadays it's not like that. But oh, but let's throw this into the mix. Now. If you go to the same culture that it's OK to have multiple wives, Oh, you would probably, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets stoned. Not say you would, but damn near like the fact that you would. You would. Anybody would even find out you were gay. You would be in some serious trouble. Yeah. Like that's how egregious it is. So it the fact that there's people nowadays that are saying like, oh, polyamory, it's just safe and cheating.

No, the hell it's not. As long as both individual or I'm not both, all the individuals are our understanding terms of of this, you know, whatever the relationship is, right, it's not cheating. It's not cheating if everyone, if all parties are in agreeance with it, it's not cheating. Now, if you're over here saying it's not, it could be different situations with the same aspect with cheating and like actual cheating. Let's just say, let's throw this as an example, right? Just so for people who don't understand Polly as much.

If you're in a Polly relationship, let's say one individual has two other partners, right? And that same individual goes out and gets a third without letting the other two know that is cheating. Yes. That is cheating because you're letting the other individuals know. Because that's the thing, a lot of people, they'll jump into Polly and think that it's like, oh, I get to sleep with whoever I want, I get to be with whoever I want. But in actual life, it's not really true. It's honestly, you know what I would call it.

And depending if you know where you are on the, you know, and with whether you're you're a heterosexual or gay or wherever on that sort of spectrum, you know, it's, I would, I would go even as far as to say it's just like, Oh my goodness, I lost, I lost my train of thought now too. I can see. That I was I had something. I had something. I lost it. I. You lost it. You. Lost it. I just had AI. Just had a brain fart. I was cooking for a second cooking.

Oh wow, Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let him cook, let him cook. Oh my God. Oh, I had it, I had it. Oh my goodness, I had it. And it's slipped for a millisecond. It's gone. Oh my goodness. But to, just to just summarize the whole thing, like as long as all parties are good and they understand the circumstances and everyone's informed on who is sleeping with who or any of that regards, you know, And again, there's even, there's even, oh, I know what it was. I, I, if, if it's like, say like multiple different partners, like let's just say 2 main partners, you're always going to have made partners.

There's the the let's just say for, for, you know, simplicity sake, we have a man and a woman, right? 22 main partners. If you know both, let's just say heterosexual, again, simplifying it a little bit. Each partner has like 2 other partners or whatever. Like at that point I call it I call Polly honestly, like a very

it's like monogamous with extra steps. Is that makes any sense? It does. Is that is that is, Yeah. It's like monogamous but with extra steps. It's monogamy on steroids because you have to take everybody in your, in your polycool, in your relationships, in every single person's boundaries, every single person's feelings, every single person's preferences, every single person's. And all details. Oh God, it is a lot. It is very much a lot, but it is very, very rewarding.

It's like, so that's again for for those individuals that say it's just like, oh, it's, it's, it's, it's still cheating. Like no, it's not. It's like, it's like you want a relationship on hard mode. OK, go ahead. Yeah. Here you go. Yeah. So. For all those those souls players out there that that want a relationship and want a challenge, go ahead take take on 2/2 partners I want. Oh my God, it is not for the weak. No. It's not for the weak, but closing thoughts on this lavender cheating. I would say, you know, I, I think the big thing with cheating is it's wrong.

I wish I could say something better. Like it's wrong, but also like there's a people's opinions of cheating are very different. And let's just make sure no one's taken from this. The, the play the devil's advocate. Don't be Jonah, Jonah Hill because we were talking a lot about emotional boundaries. We don't like men who use therapy language to keep women from having autonomous relationships and feelings and actions. So that's not what we're saying. But what we are saying is when you're doing something that is inherently harmful, then for me it is cheating.

That's because you posted a bikini pic on Instagram does not mean that you're cheating. And polyamory is a very real thing and people really need to respect it because these are consenting adults who are all communicating and keeping, I don't want to say keeping tabs, that's not right, but communicating and collaborating together as partners, but also allowing themselves to have individual relationships that further fulfill themselves. And people just need to really understand that as a whole basket.

And you don't need to understand it, but you need to respect it because it's a very real thing. And there's that's because you might look at it and not get it does not mean that there aren't a group of consenting adults in the background leading a very healthy open communication style of relationship.

I agree. Crimson final thoughts?

Just make sure all parties know what's going on. I'm just going to say it up front, like, you know, stop fucking around. Just just just just stop. It's all going to say if you're going to be if you're going to be able to to get in a relationship and you know you have certain things that you have bad habits of either you get yourself fucking therapy and fix them or if you decide to go into. You know a relationship knowing you have these problems, don't waste people's time. Yeah, I agree. No, I agree.

So my closing thoughts on this cheating, it does not matter what the motive is. It does not matter what the relationship you know was like. If you are unhappy and you decide to go and find happiness outside of the established relationship that you have, you should be strong enough to leave the relationship that you're in. I I honestly don't. As someone who has been cheated on multiple times and I admit I have done it back, it's not an excuse. It is not an excuse. It has taken me years to get over the trauma that came with the cheating, the self worth like issues and the boundary issues and all sorts of other things that has taken me years to get to a semi healthy place in a way that I can maintain honest, valid, trusting and amazing relationships.

And it is possible to get there if you are willing to take accountability and you're willing to do the work and go through the process. Because you cannot have healing and unity with anyone until you do accountability and understand you're fucked up in any way, shape or form. And that's literally what I'm going to leave us with. I want to thank you all for coming to our Phoenix Gate Talk and listening to us on our soapbox. And honestly, if you are someone who has been cheated on or hell, even if you are the cheater there, get therapy.

Like not just because you're a cheater or because you're a piece of shit, but also if you have had that problem, please find, find therapy, talk to someone. It is OK to know that you're not alone. You know, therapy is a good thing. Therapy is a tool, it should be used a more often and and I know that a lot of people don't have access to that, but the Phoenix Gate is here to listen to you and your story. So if you guys feel you ever want to reach out, hit us up on our socials, Let us know what you think of this episode.

Give us a like on any of our social media. And if you ever want to just come shoot the shit, come to the actual physical store that we have out in the Broadway mall. So I'm done, I'm done plugging. I love you all. Everybody say bye bye Reborn in. Fire rise from vain, which is blood in my face. Darkness can hold me, Shane, Phoenix, or never change.

The Feinics Gate Podcast - Issue 166 - The Anatomy of Cheating

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